Premature 5th Star for Petraeus?

Premature 5th Star for Petraeus?

“It has been more than half a century since a U.S. general was awarded a fifth star. David Petraeus’s generalship has spanned 11 years, three presidents and seven Congresses. It is time to promote him to “General of the Army” and award him a fifth star. Our military deserves it, and he has certainly earned it.“
– Pete Hegseth and Wade Zirkle, A Fifth Star for David Petraeus, Wall Street Journal, Jan. 13, 2011

With Iraq in serious danger of backsliding once the U.S. leaves at the end of this year, and Afghanistan teetering on the brink of becoming a endless quagmire, it may be just a little too soon to be planning a coronation for “King David.”

I have little quarrel with those who believe David Petreaus to be an outstanding general, one who seems to be uniquely suited to wrestle with the challenges of the post-Sept 11th world, but for now four stars on each shoulder seems plenty.


I haven’t talked to Petraeus, but I’m sure he’d brush aside any notion that he ought to be promoted to General of the Army, a wartime rank that would, at least nominally, put him ahead of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

If President Obama wants to reward Petraeus’ exemplary service, and the general wants to continue to serve his country once his tour of duty in Afghanistan ends, Joint Chiefs Chairman would be the next logical, appropriate move.

Gen. Petraeas is a winner and a great military thinker, no doubt, but the wars he is fighting have not yet been won. Let’s not let our admiration for his undeniable accomplishments overrule the cold hard facts.

I remember when there was a lot of talk around Washington about awarding Gen. Colin Powell a fifth star, after the 1991 Persian Gulf, as everyone in the Pentagon was basking in the glow and patting themselves on the back for how well war went.

But Gen. Powell went on the make a number of dubious decisions, including okaying manhunt for Somali Warlord Mohammed Farah Aidid, which resulting the so-called “Black Hawk Down” debacle.  Turns out allowing Powell to retire with four stars was the right call.  And Powell himself never sought such an honor.

Pete Hegseth and Wade Zirkle, directors at Vets for Freedom, make the case for Petraeus’s elevation in a Wall Street Journal Op-Ed, and have started a Facebook campaign.

The pair of combat veterans argue that as “a soldier-statesmen who works with foreign diplomats and generals in hot spots across the globe.” Petraeus could us the “prestige that would come with a fifth star.”  It would help the United States they say, “in its negotiations with neighboring states—and show the enemies of freedom that we are fully committed to the war against terrorism.”

One of the reason Congress instituted the five star rank is so that during World War II, U.S. commanders would not be outranked by their British counterparts.

That is not the case today.

It may well be that Petraeus ends up as the first general since Omar Bradley to merit a fifth star, but it’s too soon to make that judgment.

What do you think?

*The temporary grade of “General of the Army” (five-star) was provided for by Public Law 482, 78th Congress, approved December 14, 1944, and became permanent on March 23, 1946, under provisions of Public Law 333, 79th Congress.

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I voted for never, not because he’s overrated (let history decide that) but because he would outrank at least THREE people above him in the chain of command… the CentCom Commander, the Army CoS and the Chairman of JCS. Plus, as you pointed out, it’s not needed.

Also I believe that Schwartzkopf was also recommended for a fifth star but politely told Congress “Fuggadeboutit” There is a sample epilete in the Pentagon with five stars on it made for the day Powell/Schwartzkopf got theres. It obviously was never used.

Larry

I voted for never because there is no logic in aggrandizing Petraeus in this manner.

How about Gen. Westmoreland, a veteran of ww2, korea and vietnam. In vietnam, a long war, he commanded many more soldiers than Petraeus, lots more fighting in vietnam than both iraq & afgan and he had to put up with Johnson & others at the white house trying to run the war from a chair.

Yes! He was put in the position in Iraq to fix what problems they had and he made it work very well. Now, he’s doing the same thing in Afghanistan and is “trying” to make that work (not 100% his choice or resulting influence), but he’s been the face of both wars for the past 10 years. What does it take in this country to get rewarded for that? As a four-star, he shouldn’t be a “pawn” in the political agenda, but he’s done what the President has asked and done it well, twice.….yet he’s well below the CJCS, and what has the CJCS done lately? Bring back the prestige of that 5th star and show the military there are rewards for your performance. The country needs it.

As good as he may be, his responsibilitires are nothing like those of the WW2 five-stars.

I say yes, he deserves it. I disagree with the post above about how he has three people that outrank him; keep in mind he was the CENTCOM Commander, he sacrified potentially becoming the next Army CoS because the President “needed” him, so he chose the greater good and what he does best, lead through his subordinate commanders. We can talk about the results of Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom and how they comare to the World Wars, but the bottom line is that these two wars are like no other. There is no comparison; the enemies are different, the terrain is different, we aren’t fighting and enemy that is line up accross a field in uniform. We are fighting an enemy that looks just like everyone else and can only tell them apart when the bullets atrt flying or an IED detonates.

I have been blessed with serving under and around GEN Petraeus for the last 14 years and there isn’t a General Officer that I would rather go into combat with!

While I admit that Gen Patraeus is an excellant politician Commander it is exactly why he should not receive the Fifth Star. Any General who would allow our troops to withhold fire against an enemy combatant to soothe political agenda continues the Vietnam and Korean falacy that wars can be fought without civilian causuallties. The enemy is usiing our weakness to get our soldiers murdered. Murder is what it is when they have to restrain defending themselves until someone is killed or wounded. Most frontline soldiers coming back have stated their biggest fear is not the enemy, but the restrictions put upon them by the Command Group. When a General stands up for the needs of his soldier, he will deserve the Fifth Star.

General P is a complete failure, a real con man who cost the lives of thousands of GI and a trillion dollars. He failed in Iraq and is failing in Afghanistan. Time to admit failure, go home, and have the GIs get off the dole and get productive jobs.

You do a dishonor to all of the service people. Those in the service are earning their money they are not on a dole. If you are a veteran, which I doubt, you would know that. It wouldn’t surprise me to find out that you are on food stamps and accepting free handouts.

A fifth star is unnecessary. Consider the responsibilities of our 20th Century 5 stars, e.g. Eisenhower, MacArthur, Nimitz, etc. General P is a fine officer and gentleman but he is stuck in a no-win situation which limits consideration of such a gesture. It is only a gesture signifying not much of anything.

westy is an uniformed, ranter of BS. time for you to shut up and be a productive citizen. your attempt at an opinion is based is bs and has no merit. DON“T DOWNPLAY those who fight for your rights to live and speak freely. You may get your wish and lose your rights.

Nothing new that hasn’t been said. The five-stars of WW2 had enormous responsibilities that has not been equaled since and (hopefully) never will. A fifth star is not an “attaboy” for doing a good job,it is a reflection of the job and commensurate responsibilities. Petraus has three people above him,all would have to be promoted with appropriate seniority.

We had a five star during WWII, so why wouldn’t we have one now? We’re fighting two wars which technologically WWII can’t begin to compare itself to. This while fighting an enemy just as more devious, more recluse and just as despicable. General Petraus is leading a coalition just like Eisenhower led the allies. This is needed, but not as a gesture or reward, but instead as a prudent leadership decision just as in WWII. The US didn’t have to make Eisenhower a five star, but they did and under very similar circumstances albeit generations apart.

He is a great guy, and I am sure that he is an even harder worker…however as military members we serve because (most of us at least) feel like this country is worth it and we are willing to give our life. Not because we want to get promotions. All we really care about is making sure that we make enough money to take care of our families and put food on the table. We all know that we are not going to become multi-millionaires. That is the beauty. We recruit, retain, and support the people of the military, and it is an honor to serve next to them all. There is no 5th star that is needed to prove that he is a worthwhile General. If you are in the military then you know that the Generals have jobs that none of us really want, and you respect them for the decisions that they have to make and move on. But 5th star — no…

Do you really think Congress would award a fifth star to anybody? Memories are long in Washington and they will remember MacArthur challenging the President. No way they will tell John Doe that this guy is smarter than we are.

A General doesn’t have control of moneies, that is the purview of Congress. A general can not make political comment or appeal directly to the American people. His assignments are directed by authority of the President, JCS and Congress. Your arguement is a sound full of fury and hubris without fact or meaning.

Gates is looking for to cut defense budget this is not how to do it.

I think this country needs a five star, for comments said about haing more advatage when dealing with higher ups from different heads of state(countys )

This effort is a knee jerk emotion based one. The promotion/paygrade is not practical during this time, for anyone.

The General is deserving of all the honors that can possibily be bestowed, but the fifth star is not an honor, but an obsolete position.

In the military a person can outrank their supervisor and STILL be the subordinate so the JC issue is irrelevant. By almost all accounts the General has performed exceedingly well in his present and past posts and deserves his fifth star. He has succeeded where no other could.

This is not a real WAR: Afghanistan is an engagement.….….and a mistaken engagement at that. It does not warrant a five star commander. cedric

AGREE: toward the same end, I propose we bring the troops home from both Afghanistan and Iraq. The “Debt” would not be the problem it is had we not been foolishly led into these colonial adventures.

You answered your own question, we had a five star during WWII, this is not WWIII, didn’t know that they declared war, thought OIF and OEF were just Operations. If anyone deserved a 5th Star, that would have been Stormin Norman Schwartzkopf for the shock and awe and quick handling of business in Desert Storm.

I think the best way to silence “Westy” is have him pull his pants up, because he is certainly talking through his butt.

Better yet — let’s elect him President of the United States!

It appears that the President and Senate rely on this individual greatly, they have thrown in in areas where big problems exist, therefore, I feel he should be rewarded with a 5th star. This would show that he is the top general of the army and is justly deserving of it.

YOU GIVE IT TO HIM FOR “IRAQ” AND THEN WILL YOU TAKE IT AWAY FOR AFGHANISTAN ‚LETS WAIT UNTIL HIS JOB IS DONE AND GET HIS WHOLE CAREER TO LOOK AT.….

I would vote for a 5 star general if one could “win” a war. So far fighting in place never wins.

Please, no battlefield promotion. Let’s wait and see what lies down the road…

make him a PFC ..PROUD FUC-ING CIVILIAN

Never seen so many medals and doodads on a soldier who barely saw any combat. I spent 30 years, through two real wars (although also undeclared) and never came close to so many medals and ribbons. What a frickin hero! And now they’re talking up a promotion after he’s reached the highest rank available. What is the meaning of this crap?

Too many irrelevant factors thrown into this equation. Awards (medals, ribbons, certificates, etc.) are given as rewards or “attaboys.” Promotion in rank, however, is NOT given simply as reward or as an attaboy. It is given in recognition of successful performance demonstrating the potential for further service at the next higher level position calling for that advanced rank. Pretty simple. If there is no established position calling for the higher rank in the current politico-military mission (and there isn’t), then there is no promotion warranted. If that mission somehow changes, reconsider at that time the need for a five-star POSITION, not a five-star “reward.” Keep the personalities and agendas out of it. Besides, from what I remember of him, I think Dave Petraeus is too bright to even want to get sucked up into all of this.
–Wm. G. Blissett, LTC, USA, Ret.

What an insane idea in a military already burdened with far too many generals and officers for that matter. We defeated Hitler and Tojo with 3 five star generals and Gen. P, with all due respect, already looks absurd with more ribbons and festooned items than a Russian Field Marshall.….I would argue the Army should only have 3 or 4 4-star generals.…PERIOD and withhold 5 stars for World War III…which we pray never arrives. I believe ribbons and awards should be given for bravery and heroism primarily and at times for exemplary non-comat service.…as anyone on active duty knows, awards are simply given for having done one’s duty as a “farewell fruit basket”, along with grade creep. I must concur with the writer above who noted Gen. P’s lack of combat experience.…the Iraqi Army was not the Whermacht anyway.…Retired 05.

I vote No, never. I’m not into this everybody gets a trophy deal. What about the commanders before him? They were there in the bad times. What does Tommy Franks get? A Coke & a Smile? He lead a invasion and took The Capitol in a Month.

Why is it when Something or Someone good comes along and deserves Special Recognition or a Pay Raise for whatever the reason, all the fools who didn’t get something want to spoil it. Gen Petraeus has come forward for the need of the U.S.Government and requested by the president and did his duty more than once in a way that fit the occasion with expected results, not defeats. Why is it everyone wants blood.

The higher up the chain of command a field grade officer attains, the less exposed to the reality of combat they
face. The amount of oxygen gets pretty thin by the time a soldier gets to the altitude a general operates in.
Instead of blowing smoke, lets face the reality that ALL branches of the DoD could get by with HALF the generals
we have in place now. Think of how much smoother things would run and how much money would be saved annually on the DoD budget.

I would think that a 5-star promotion would be reserved for, at a minimum, a victorious commander. At this point, there is no victory remotely in sight in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

Rank is not a “prize” nor is it “awarded”. Promotions are earned and rank reflects the level of responsibility in a given position. A 5-star is not warranted in the current military structure. Should there come a time when it is, he should certainly be considered. Until then, no.

A lot of people have made valid statements, lets hope the People in Washington here them. We haven’t won anything other than spend $$$$$$$$ . This General doesn’t know how to clean his weapon. Has he told Obama its a loosing situation in a few years it will be the same. The Russians proved this war is a lost cause. They are very brutal in war and we think holding hands is the answer. The fall of Iran should send us a message. As long as we give they laugh at us-if this man gets a 5th Star then our military History is a shame. We give rewards for just being there. Sorry!!! I bet that Pfc didn’t get promoted for doing great work ‚after all no one knows his name unless the General wants headlines.

The Army CoS and the CJCS are not in his chain of command. They are advisors to the President and to the Combatant Commanders and while they may make policies that impact the roles of Combatant Commanders and their subordinates, they do not have command authority over them.

The argument regarding outranking the CENTCOM commander has merit, but that’s not an insurmountable obstacle either. At least one way to resolve this would be to elevate the Afghanistan/ISAF mission to a Specified Command, changing the CENTCOM Commander’s relationship with him to one much like the ACoS and CJCS.

I havent’fully decided, but I tend to favor the idea. I’d also point out to Mr. McIntyre, that a 5th star is not a reward for missions accomplished–we elevated the 8 WWII 5 stars during the fight, based on merit certainly, but GEN Petraeus is not lacking in that department.

As for GEN Powell’s post-Gulf War actions somehow justifying not elevating him, does that mean that having decided not to elevate MacArthur would have been justified in light of his eventual sacking by Truman? Not knowing the future then, you create a standard by which it would be impossible to ever again elevate a GO to 5-star.

Finally, if there were a measure by which I’d definitively deny a 5th star, it would be if they sought the elevation themselves. Humility is a by-product of Selfless Service, the value we expect of our servicemembers regardless of rank. Humility in an individual who has achieved so much is a an argument in favor, not against.

Really? Would you be more specific?

The promotion system is made up of a few different things. One is the performance at the current rank and another is whether the person has the ability to perform at the higher rank with the added responsibilities. If the General is being evaluated on these two prerequisites, GTG. If he’s being rewarded for his current and past performance, then that’s when AWARDS and medals come into play, not promotions.

We haven’t won in either astan or iraq, so why give him another star. Losers don’t get promoted. He should lose one or two.

I voted no as I do not think he’s worthy of a promotion. But, alas, most yes men do get promoted, no matter how we feel about it! Sad times these, if we get into a “REAL WAR,” my guess we,d loose a lot of lives, with the yes men being promoted, as of late, when you look at the lack of interest in maintaining the “Best Fighting Forces — In the World!”

i would agree, save the 5th. for the big wars to come !!

You know like I know the WHITE MAN is going to get it .

Everybody check Eisenhower’s record he was a clerk most of his career until being made supreme commander allied forces Europe his first combat command!
Give Gen. Petraeus a 5th star make him CJCS. get homosexual supporter Am. Mullen out of there!

It’s a pretty safe bet that he wouldn’t get it until he was out of there. If he did get it while there he would likely be pulled and bumped up the CoC.

I disagree. The commanders of WWII did exactly what they had to do to win the war. So is this General. They lost more men, killed more innocent civilians — but that’s how war was waged back then. Now we are demanding ‘surgical strikes’ and minimizing civilian casualties — something not even possible in WWII or even ‘Nam. And even with this added stress Petraeus has done a fantastic job of commanding his men and women. Do I think he deserves a 5th star? I voted “Maybe later” because, as noted, this is far from over…but to suggest he isn’t stepping up like the WWII Generals did — I think that’s unfair. Just my HO, of course — I served under Powell’s/Schwartzkopf’s leadership and thought they did an excellent job but not worthy of any additional recognition.

Not a real war? When have you ever been there? What constitutes “Real War” in your world?

“We don’t belong there” “its not a real war” get off of your xbox and enlist and tell me how not real it is. Maybe google 9 11 or maybe get ur info from a vet and not cnn you liberal sissies. If ur a vet like me I thank you for your service. Imo what’s another star as long as he wins

Generals Petraeus and McCrystal are both CFR (Council of Foreign Relations) members. If anything they should be drummed out of Army for being TRAITORS.

A Majority of US Politicians are NWO Zionist owned & are in violation of the LOGAN ACT. They are powerless unless the Bilderberg Group or CFR tell them what to do. They are all TRAITORS to We the People, Bill of Rights and US Constitution. Their legislation flawed as they lie to get elected and never do what they were elected to do. The Logan Act should be prosecuted against all US politicians who are members of any secret societies meeting behind closed doors. Escort to internment camps illegally funded and built for American Citizens for internment and trail.

Interesting that you would claim that we didn’t have two wars going on during WWII. We actually fought a war against Germany in Europe and another war in the Pacific against Japan that were much larger than the two conflicts we have going on now.

I’d take Mr. McIntyre’s opinions more seriously if he proof read his article. 5th star? That’s probably a stretch at this point, but I can’t get through the argument here because I’m too distracted by misspellings, typographical errors and grammatical mistakes.

Compare the careers of those who wore 5 stars versus those who are being proposed. Marshall, probably the greatest General we’ve produced, became COS in 1939 with an army of 177,000 men and left in 1945 with an army of 8.5 million and 90 divisions deployed (68 in Europe and 22 in the Pacific). The enormity of his mission to, raise, house, feed, train, equip, and deploy that Army dwarfs any endeavours that we have going today. General Bradley (the last 5 star) commanded 12th Army Group which consisted of 4 Field Armies with 2.5 milion men and was the first CJCS. The 5 star rank had a lot to do with military protocol of the day. Technically a Field Marshall out ranked a 4 star, and Ike had 3 FM’s under his command. The 5 star rank was actually a Navy idea. It was first proposed that we institute a Field Marshal in our ran structure, but GCM thought it smacked of European Militiarism. 5 Army (Arnold would later by law become GOAF) Generals would evenetually hold the rank. The law restricted each service to 4 billets each. No reflection on General P, but he is not in that league.

No, hell no. He’s no Douglas McArthur, or the likes of those brave men. No way! That will desocrate the integrity of that 5th star.

It’s no more premature than the Nobel Peace Prize for Barry — all he has done is continue to escalate wars!!!! Unbelievable!!!

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