Home » On Media » Upon Further Review: Collateral Murder?

Upon Further Review: Collateral Murder?

By Jamie McIntyre Thursday, April 8th, 2010 6:13 am
Posted in On Media, On War

Yesterday I reviewed the gun camera video from the July 12 2007 engagement in which a Reuters cameraman and his driver were killed in Iraq after a U.S. Apache helicopter opened fire on a group of men. This was posted by the WikiLeaks website under the title Collateral Murder.

I gave my analysis, based on what I could see on the tape, including my conclusion that the crew failed to ascertain the group of men was in fact comprised of enemy fighters.

Since then I have obtained and read the Army’s 15–6 investigation, which concludes the Reuters cameraman and the driver “were in the company of armed insurgents who had been firing on Bravo company…”. The investigation, which you can read here in its entirety, says two RPGs and one AK-47 assault rifle were found at the scene.

The report includes still frames from the same video released by WikiLeaks Monday and highlights where one man can be seen carrying a gun, and another an RPG round. I have to say, to my untrained eye, I could not determine those fuzzy images were weapons. It also shows U.S. soldiers carrying the wounded children away from the scene.

The report adds more facts to help explain the context of what happened including a report from soldiers on the ground who reported they were still taking small arms fire and RPG when they got to the site. One picture in the Army purports to show an RPG found at the scene. Presumably it’s alongside a dead body, but the report is redacted to cover the dead, and the round can’t be seen.

I’m still not clear that the Apache crew should have fired on this group, based on what looked like one man carrying an AK-47. But what is clear is this happened in the course of a battle, in which U.S. troops nearby were taking fire. And these “military-age men” as the military likes to call them, appeared to be in some combat role.

It’s also clear this was NOT an indiscriminate killing, and the helicopter crew had no way to know that a journalist was in the group. And look at the pictures. Once you believe the groups has RPG’s the Reuters camerman’s telephoto lens looks for all the world like a rocket launcher poking around the corner of the building.

The report also notes the cameraman was not wearing a PRESS vest, or anything else that would indicate he was a journalist. Not that it would have saved him that day.

If the Reuters photographer was shooting the war from the insurgents’ perspective, he was taking his life in his hands, and he paid dearly for it.

Read the full investigation, before condemning this as an act of “collateral murder.”

Tags: 15-6, Collateral Murder, Iraq, Reuters, WikiLeaks

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	John Smith April 8th, 2010 at 3:19 pm I wouldn’t be surprised if this was another Reuters incident where they were trying to set up (read:fake) photography from the insurgent perspective, but then went horribly wrong. This could also explain the reason for no press vests being worn and the fact that not all of the men had weapons.
	suspicious April 9th, 2010 at 6:14 am OOPS we f+++ed up lets cover it up.
	Curt April 9th, 2010 at 8:38 am The AR-15 investigation in no way shape or form lets these Apache pilots off the hook. In fact it provides further evidence of an even bigger war crime. But more on that later. Justice in America is often an oxymoron. In America Rodney King was LAWFULLY beaten. Nothing has changed. I would like to know who in the hell was responsible for training these Apache pilots. I have not served 30 years in the military or even 5 but I did learn the theory of a few of the basics. One of the things that I learned from Captain(at that time) Gary Householder of Tennessee, and if anyone can find him we can ask him to verify this, is that in war there is a strong tendency to dehumanize the enemy which must be guarded against, or ones actions can become very barbaric. Now having never been in combat I can not say that I would have upheld that rule. But if I did not it would have been a failure on my part, not a one time failure for example like identifying a camera as a weapon but a systematic failure. How has the US military applied its own lesson in this war? Is that lesson not taught anymore. Perhaps there is another rule that says it goes out the window for COIN operations. Is that a lesson that I never learned because I fell asleep in class. Now how about the part where the pilot justifies his firing on the van that has come to help the wounded as preventing the insurgents from escaping. This same justification is repeated in the AR– 15 investigation. Damn what Army was I trained by. I thought that it was a no no to fire on those people who were wounded and incapable of fighting and a really big no no to attack those personnel who were involved with the care of the wounded. That so much emphasis is placed on preventing the escape of the insurgents is evidence to me that the real reason efforts were made to keep this tape from the public is that there is a public rules of engagement and there is a secret rules of engagement, or perhaps an unofficial official rules of engagement. If we review, lets say 1000 Apache video and audio tapes, will further cases be found to corroborate this suspicion? Now is this a case of collateral murder or just plain murder? A few of the men in this group were armed. Duh in case you did not notice there was a civil war going on at the time. Any Iraqi could not only expect to be attacked by US forces at anytime they could be expected to be attacked by a rival Iraqi militia at any time. On second hand maybe this is a good rule after all. It would justify me going in to a Star Wars coffee shop and opening fire on everyone openly carrying a fire arm. That would reduce the number of conservatives in the US somewhat faster. After all those conservatives have far far far less reason to carry around a weapon than any Iraqi did or does. Those conservatives have a weapon in a coffee shop if they are not planning to go on a shooting spree they must be planning on robing the bank next door right? Ok the military could say that outside of the two children no innocent Iraqis were hurt. In 2007 18 out of 20 Iraqi males were either insurgents fighting the US occupation of their country or they supported the insurgents. Since only 13 Iraqi males of military age were shot we can be pretty sure that the 2 out of the 20 that supported the US occupation were not present in this gathering of males at the time. That is an argument that works with me. There is one possible legal defense for these pilots that would work for me. That they were given mind altering drugs before this incident without their knowledge. If that guy who bombed the federal building in Oklahoma had stopped and brought two of the children injured there to the hospital would we give him any credit? The Columbine shooters at least had the sense to commit suicide. Hey they too were only killing people that they thought were pricks. Does this tape betray the true nature of how the US military behaves? If it does they are really some dangerous people. They are so dangerous that they should not be allowed to come back to the US. The American people will be safer with out them.
	TAO April 9th, 2010 at 12:43 pm Curt, your commentary reads like the ranting of a deranged homosexual, or a liberal democrat without the benefit of any real backbone. As a pilot, sitting in a shaking screaming twisting helicopter within combative airspace, the presence of armed men is enough to cut them to ribbons with the chainsaw effect of an attack helicopter. They are, in fact, ‘limited area weapons’. War is generally an ugly business.
	Johnny April 9th, 2010 at 1:47 pm Curt shut the Fu$% up before you open your mouth! You said it you tard you havn’t served or been to combat, so go choke yourself!!!
	p3jockey April 9th, 2010 at 2:17 pm Curt, Keep in mind that our American Forces are fighting an “unconventional” war with no clear lines that distinguish good guys from bad guys. Given the limits of even our best technology to help ID who is and is not a threat in a “hot zone”, does it not occur to you that the pilots must make judgement calls on targets that are moving about in a fire fight. What really disgusts me about your comments and others who would lump our fighting men and women into the catagory of “baby killers” is that you folks wake up every day and get to enjoy your coffee, smell the roses, play your video games, watch your sports and otherwise fully experience the fruits of freedom here in America ( to include free speech) without any sense of what HELL are troops are experiencing every minute of their lives in combating those that would take away the said above. To even suggest legal processes or consequences for our hero soldiers shows how out of touch with reality you and others really are.
	p3jockey April 9th, 2010 at 2:18 pm The true lesson here is , if you do not want to be mistaken as an enemy combatant, stay out and far far away from the ugly business of the combat. These people died because of their own doings…war is hell on earth.
	Teufel Hunden April 9th, 2010 at 2:38 pm In the immortal words of Col. Jessup… “You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to.”
	Teufel Hunden April 9th, 2010 at 2:42 pm Saw the video btw and the stills above do not show the best angle or moment where the RPG and AK are visible.
	Alex -DC April 9th, 2010 at 11:06 am If there’s any kind of lesson to be learned from this story is being on the worng end of Apache is dangerous to your health. People for some incomprehensible reason completely lose perspecitve around stories like this one. This is US vs. THEM. All of US and all of THEM. If some of them want to join us, fine. But if you start empathizing with them, you are joining them. These wars are crazy, they will lead to crazy cirsumstances and results. Dont hang out with insurgents and don’t point your cameras at Apaches or Abrams’. And you probably will be fine. If you stay in Paris.
	Curt April 9th, 2010 at 3:34 pm When I arrived the first time in Europe it was in Madrid around one year after an attempted coup to bring the Francoists back to power. I saw these Policemen all around carrying submachine guns. They were called the Guardia Civil. Some one told me, in America when a bankrobber runs in to a crowd the police will not shoot to avoid hurting an inncocent person. Here in Spain the Guardia Civil will shoot to make sure that the bankrobber does not get away. Spare me your bullshit about the difficulty of telling the god guys from the bad guys in Iraq. Anyone who shoots at an American is a good guy trying to free their country of illegal invaders. If you do not want to be shot at do not go there. Spare me your bullshit about war being an ugly bussiness. or whatever. If you can not understand that unarmed men, not firing at you are not enemy combantants, you are in the wrong business. What the fuck is training for so that you can ignore it. You can say that there are no rules in war. If you do that you are saying there are no rules in life. Just face it you are a nihlist. Do not forget Col. Jessup was the bad guy. The one that was placed under arrest. He was not an officer or a soldier to emmulate.
	f451 April 9th, 2010 at 3:48 pm I have been in this situation before as a photographer. You want the best covereage at any cost. That is their job! They just got too close at the wrong time. The are truly colateral damage, but they placed themselves in this position just as a reporter with the US military would be if they got killed (Erny Pile comes to mind!). As a professional photographer or journalist, that is the price you pay to get that perfect shot or perfect story.
	Steven H. April 9th, 2010 at 3:52 pm Curt, I have served, 1983–1986 U.S. Army, 6BN 33FA, and I have seen the video as well. Even if only 1 man was carrying an AK-47, you can clearly hear the orders come through from Command to the Apache crew to engage, as is such in EVERY video I’ve seen from Apache taskings. Is the gunner then to say “sorry I refuse to fire on armed people because an innocent might die”?, In the midst of a firefight you sometimes don’t have time to worry about collateral damage, it’s war and it happens, accept it or go live in a cave somewhere, because it has always happened since man has formed armies.
	Philip Smucker April 9th, 2010 at 3:52 pm Hi. Jamie. Great to meet u last night and hear your views on this video. I don’t disagree with your assessment, but I think there are enough unknown facts here to warrant re-opening the investigation. If the firing was in error, the Reuters cameraman’s family can receive compensation. We have created a fund for this very reason and it serves a good cause. Finally, I think the audio is as or more instructive as the pictures — which by your own admission — are fuzzy. As we hear the pilot say to the man crawling on the ground that he should pick up a gun — we clearly understand that he knows that this is required for ROE. Finally, a full investigation will account for the ownership of the van and the identities of the children therein. Generally speaking, most insurgents don’t drive around with kids in the back seat. This appears — by all measure — to have been a genuine attempt to rescue the cameraman. I tend to believe the Reuters executives and their explanation, but only a full investigation will reveal all the facts in the case. Best, Philip
	Steven H. April 9th, 2010 at 4:13 pm I absolutely agree with Col. Jessup, most of (if not all) of the people who whine about things like this have never served, yet critic our Troops for doing their job, I say the U.S. should adopt a law like alot of other countries have. After High School EVERYONE must serve mandatory # of years in the Military, even if they don’t stay in they have a perspective of what our Troops go through on a daily basis.
	Curt April 9th, 2010 at 9:56 pm Any American who would call an Iraqi, “a prick” who has been shooting at Americans in IRAQ is someone who knows absolutely nothing about American history themselves, and qualify themselves as someone under serving of US citizenship. Did I say that right? You betcha!
	Curt April 9th, 2010 at 10:07 pm The Colonel Jessups of the military are not an asset to America but a danger to America. Long live Gomer Pyle!
	gallglas April 10th, 2010 at 5:33 pm Several rules were broken here. Children under the age of fifteen were brought into a firefight by the insurgents. This broke a rule of war. An alleged evac vehicle full of recuers was driven into the combat zone sans white flag or red cross,crescent markings and with the children. The evac personnel were not marked as such. The press was not clearly mark and could be charged with spying/espionage. The press camera’s recovered from the site show pictures of hummvees and other aspects of the operation being run by the American troops. While carrying a rifle even an AK is common among many in Iraq the prescence of the ANTITANK RPG which is effective way on out to 1000 mt and can shoot down Helo’s is a clear indication of hostile intent towards helo’s and ground vehicles up to tank power.
	galloglas April 10th, 2010 at 5:33 pm What I saw was: 1. An anti vehcile ambush squad with a van for displacing and human shields to prevent counter fire from American troops. 2. The squad consisted of a RPG team with a fire team of rifles to cover and or over run the kill zone to kill any American’s who survived the RPG hit or perhaps capture and to behead on video later. When the RPG team displaced the rifles would cover him/them with fire. 3. The van would approach and all the men who were armed would place their rifles and launchers inside so as to be seen as “un armed civilians” of course the children would have be a disguise or shields. 4. then the van and squads would displace to another fire point. what happen was, the squad did not count on the Apache gunships flying top cover. The squad got detected and was destroyed, the “unmarked van ran in to evac weapons and casualties ” was taken underfire and destroyed. The press just embedded with the wrong side and apparently embedded with a bunch of dumbasses. All legal and permmisable under the laws of war. Good shooting guys OoHRAaaaa!
	galloglas April 10th, 2010 at 5:39 pm rules of land warfare state. 1. All medical or evac vehicles and personnel will be clearly marked ir they can be destroyed. 2. It is against the rules of land war to take children under 15 into a known battle field area. 3. The press must be clearly marked as such or face charges of espianoge and spying. Rueters is well known to lie. The people in the van and the cameraman deserve no compensation they broke the laws.
	galloglas April 10th, 2010 at 5:42 pm “Now having never been in combat”. About sums your whole view point up in one sentence doesn’t it Bubba?
	galloglas April 10th, 2010 at 5:49 pm An American soldier being shot at in IRAQ or AFSTAN perhaps even FT. HOOD TEXAS doesn’t have the time nor the inclination to study or contemplate American History, being a soldier for America means the man is a citizen of this country or soon will be, an American being shot at just wants to kill the iraqi “PRICK” who is shooting at him and trying to kill him. You have never been shot at obviously and most likely you have never even been in a fist fight. The other guy is always a PRICK and may just be called a Floggin’ Arsehole.
	Curt April 10th, 2010 at 11:46 pm I did not see a fire fight. I saw a Columbine style massacre. A few weeks ago an 88 year old German man was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of THREE Dutch civlians that he has ORDERED to do. These pilots were not ordered to commit murder they begged for permission to commit murder. These pilots should know that some people have long memories. Of course being surrounded by a bunch of like minded mass murderers I do not think that will make them sweat.
	Pilot&Ranger April 11th, 2010 at 11:08 pm Curt, you have to watch all 39 minutes of video and not the redacted and edited one that is being dstributed first. Second, I was in Iraq at that time. During that period Sadr City was on fire. Rocket squads were scurrying about launching mortars and rockets towards the IZ and all over the city killing dozens at a time indiscriminately. MND-B placed a constant turn of Apache’s over Baghdad to take out these teams before they could fire and provide constant cover to US and Iraqi forces trying to secure the city. The rules were simple. If you are carrying a weapons system you are a target. If you are traveling in a group with somebody carrying a weapons system you are subject to targeting too. I don’t see any identification of anyone in that group wearing the commonly used “PRESS” vests used by the international press. They were moving rapidly towards an ongoing firefight a block or two away. It goes without saying they made themselves appear like targets. Is it tragic? Absolutely. Is it criminal? No.
	Pilot&Ranger April 11th, 2010 at 11:09 pm Second point: Now…I have been to combat. Four times as a matter of fact. If you think we are somehow bad soldiers cause they called the bad guys pricks you are an even bigger idiot than I can believe. It goes against all we are raised to believe to kill another human being and to do so means you have to have some kind of anger or reason to kill that other man. To criticize a soldier because he calls the enemy a bad name who is killing his friends and innocent civilians like the sick bastards in the Mahdi Army were doing at that time makes you a complete and unparalleled idiot. I earned my citizienship burying my friends and Iraqi partners while you sit here as a troll on a blog. So shut the f&% up until you saddle up and get yourself in combat and have to explain to one of your soldiers wives how her husband died in a crappy desert 6000 miles from home.
	Pilot&Ranger April 11th, 2010 at 11:08 pm Curt, you have to watch all 39 minutes of video and not the redacted and edited one that is being dstributed first. Second, I was in Iraq at that time. During that period Sadr City was on fire. Rocket squads were scurrying about launching mortars and rockets towards the IZ and all over the city killing dozens at a time indiscriminately. MND-B placed a constant turn of Apache’s over Baghdad to take out these teams before they could fire and provide constant cover to US and Iraqi forces trying to secure the city. The rules were simple. If you are carrying a weapons system you are a target. If you are traveling in a group with somebody carrying a weapons system you are subject to targeting too. I don’t see any identification of anyone in that group wearing the commonly used “PRESS” vests used by the international press. They were moving rapidly towards an ongoing firefight a block or two away. It goes without saying they made themselves appear like targets. Is it tragic? Absolutely. Is it criminal? No.
	Curt April 12th, 2010 at 3:58 pm Hahahaha you must think that I am only joking but you should take my advice seriously. It might save someones life. Now anyone who says they made themselves a target by moving towards a firefight a block or two away in a large city is quite clearly from Wyoming, Mississippi your Utah. For people who have grown up in a large city a block or two away is like being in another county when you are from a rural area.
	Col April 12th, 2010 at 5:09 pm Amen, Curt does has an opion, but in my world,the real world war is hell and we should bring Hell on these people. then we will see sucess in COIN operations. Oh by the way Curt, The Army did not Lose in RVN, LBJ and his DEMO’s in congress did. I thank God I’m retired, there would be no ROE, I would use ARTY and Air all over my AO before one 11B fired his weapon.
	Col April 12th, 2010 at 5:11 pm That was Erine Pyle
	Col April 12th, 2010 at 5:28 pm TAO, as an Apache stick driver, you have captured the monment. well said
	Pilot&Ranger April 12th, 2010 at 5:34 pm No Curt I am a veteran of combat in Baghdad which makes me a hell of a lot more of an expert than you. A block is the battle sector in Sadr City. Do the world a favor and just shut up. What a troll. I won’t take advice from a loser who thinks he knows a damn thing about combat operations in Iraq who has never been there. When you are running towards a battle with weapons it makes you part of the fight. How anyone with any common sense sees otherwise shows how foolish arm chair quarterbacks can be.
	Col April 12th, 2010 at 5:25 pm Curt, you have missed the point on the Col Jessups in that scene and in the military. We spend long hours training, educating our men and women for the mission. God, Duty, Honor, and Country are a way of life not just words, “there is no second place in our business”, Your are entitled to your opinion, but until you have served, then that is all that it is, an opinion.
	Curt April 12th, 2010 at 10:02 pm No being a combat veteran of Bagdad in no way shape or form makes you more of an expert than me. If you do not have the correct ideological perspective you go through not only combat but all of life with no more expertise than the horse that pulls my wagon.
	Curt April 13th, 2010 at 5:27 pm Ok Mr. Expert, if you are such an expert tell me why did the Apache Pilot shoot the men in front of that house and not the house next door? Does an expert know that if the men had been walking in the other direction what that would have indicated? Does an expert know if they had been walking along a street parrallel to where the Americans were being fired upon what that would have indicated? Does an expert know if one of the men had pointed his middle finger at the Apache pilot what that would have indicated? To say that Pat Tillmans death was a tragedy but not a crime might be an accurated statement. To say that the pilot needed to make a split second decision is to throw up a smoke screen. This crime was not caused because someone needed to make a split second decision. It was made because someone placed absolutely no value on the lives of military age Iraqi men. He placed no value on the lives of military age Iraqi men because that is the way he was trained. Am I wrong about his training? If I am not wrong about his training, should he be treated as a sponge who bears no responsiblity for accepting what he is fed? If I am wrong about his training then other people in the military should be as appalled as I am. I would seem that one person in the military is as appalled as I am or this video would have never made it to Wikileaks. I wonder if that person was a Veteran of combat in Bagdad? I wonder if secretly he purposely fired his weapon in such a way that he would never hit someone shooting at him? I wonder if he placed his life in the hands of another power? Was he an exceptional person? Is he alone?
	scott April 15th, 2010 at 12:17 am In 2007, the IRAQI government forbid its citizens from carrying weapons in public (as they had for several years before and still do currently). This was done by the IRAQI government to prevent people from being shot by not only the US, but other coalition and IRAQI forces. By openly carrying a weapon, the individuals in this video became lawful targets under LOAC, the others are by legal definition collateral damage.
	scott April 15th, 2010 at 12:18 am Your comments generally demonstrate your lack of understanding of LOAC and the Geneva Conventions. These regulations validate the actions of these pilots; while you may think of them as something else, they not murderers under international, US or Iraqi law. Your continuing rants merely demostrate the inability to look at the full video footage objectively. I would venture to guess that you were (though most likely in hindsight starting in 2004 or 2005) always against the coalition intervention in Iraq. Am I correct in that assumption? It would not surprise me to learn that you are unaware of the repeated violations of UN mandates purported by Saddam’s government that gave the US led coalition the legal right (and per UN charter — requirement) to intervene. This is not the same as saying there was a US Security Council Resolution authorizing the intervention, but it does mean that the US led intervention was in complete compliance with international law.
	scott April 15th, 2010 at 12:18 am So, what I’ve learned by reading the above post — you and others have resorted to emotion and name calling vice having a intelligent discussion that addresses the legal and moral justifications and ramifications of this incident. I’ve also learned that you have not done thorough research on the US military or US actions in Iraq — though I suspect you view many blogs and watch a lot of T.V. on the subject. Additionally, other have forgotten that you are entitled to your opinion, even if counter to their own and seemingly uneducated on the subject being discussed. This point is brought up to address why the video was not released in 2007, since you are obviously unaware of US code that prohibits the release of media that displays a capability of US forces (addressed by classification level of the system generating the media).
	scott April 15th, 2010 at 12:19 am The release of the video through unofficial channels is curious, though not unheard of in recent years. Would it surprise you to know that there are tens of thousands of pages of text, pictures and video that are still classified from WWII? It probably does, which goes back to my comment about being uneducated on the topic you are attempting to discus and argue. In closing — your comments are interesting, or perhaps comical, as are many of the responses. I hope that you take the time to educate yourself on the Law of Armed Conflict (LOAC), the Geneva Conventions, Iraqi Public Law (though you’ll need to read arabic, which I’ll assume you can’t), US Code applicable to the military and state secrets, and hopefully stop basing your opinion off skewed web sites and T.V. I would say the same to many of those that responded to you with somewhat colorful language. Also, pardon the multiple post – I’m long winded at times.
	Civilian December 4th, 2010 at 11:17 am The US led war war illegal in the first place. Kofi annan clearly said that, but he had no power to stop this war. No weapons of mass destruction found, so the war is now justified by saying, “World is better off without Saddam Hussain”.
	Macca March 5th, 2011 at 12:41 am At least in passed American ‘cock ups’ like Vietnam when their murdering troops lead by the likes of Lieutenant Calley massacred innocents the US Gov made out they were interested in holding somebody accountable.Even in that ‘minor incident’ the 3 helicopter crew that still had a working moral compass and intervened waited 30 years before told officially they did the right thing.…
	Uncle Herb April 19th, 2011 at 9:55 am US Soldiers are supposed to adhere to “The Rules of Engagement”(whatever they are) in the Theater in which they operate. It puts them in a defensive posture even before they engage the enemy. I would hope our troops are practical enough to ignore them. I served with 25InfDiv in Vietnam, between 12Sep69-May70. I was wounded in a firefight near Cu Chi. The wound was serious enough that I could not return to combat. I’m an expert. So is any GI who has survived an hour of combat in whatever theater of operations he’s assigned. I have watched “Collateral Murder” a dozen times. If anyone involved in that operation reads this–THANKS!!!Hope you made it back OK As for “Curt”, whoever you are, Get Fucked.Our troops are the best and you have the temerity to sit in judgement of them? To reprove them because they dont operate from the same moral high ground you do? Again Get Fucked. You know, writing this comment has made me rather nostalgic. I kind of miss murdering innocent civilians, water buffalo, cutting off toes while interrogating prisoners.Why am I telling you all this. You’re an expert, right?

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