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Toyota: A Neutral Observation

By Jamie McIntyre Tuesday, March 9th, 2010 8:40 pm
Posted in J-Mac's Attack

UPDATE Saturday March 13, 2010: Watch this CNN iReport for important evidence about the Toyota controversy. Click link or picture.

This is a little out of my area of expertise, but exercising my blogger’s prerogative, I have to say I am puzzled by this ongoing Toyota story. I own two Toyotas, and they have been great cars, but I get that there are some real problems with some small fraction of the vehicles on the road.

Just today I read the hair-raising account of a Californian man who’s Toyota Prius went into warp speed, and with the brakes smoking from trying to overcome a stuck accelerator, the car finally came to a stop when a Highway Patrolman pulled his car in front.

The driver gave a news conference in which he described how he called 911, but couldn’t talk on the phone and control the car as it reached speeds over 90 miles per hour.

So here’s the part I don’t get. I didn’t even hear anyone ask the question:

WHY DIDN’T THE DRIVER PUT THE CAR IN NEUTRAL?

How hard is that? If the guy panicked and didn’t think of the obvious first thing to do, why didn’t the highly trained 911 operators tell him to do that? Why didn’t the police officer, who was broadcasting instructions over his loudspeaker, according to the AP account, tell the driver to put the car in neutral?

Actually I just listened to the 911 call and it turns out the dispatcher did ask the driver if he could take the car out of gear, but the driver wasn’t listening. He said he couldn’t talk on the phone AND drive the car. But he did have time to perform the useless maneuver of reaching down and pulling the gas pedal back up.

I find it astonishing that any driver of a modern car could be unaware that to disengage the engine from the drive train you simply PUT THE CAR IN NEUTRAL. I’m glad he’s okay, but the guy needs to go back to driver’s ed.

So when you hear the stories about cars that ran amok for miles before tragically crashing and killing it occupants, you have to wonder if the drivers simply panicked and failed to execute a simple procedure that would have saved their lives.

If Toyota cars can’t be put in neutral when the accelerator is stuck, then there are problems with the transmissions that are far more serious than anything we have been told about so far.

Am I missing something?

Tags: Acceleration, Neutral, Toyota

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	Mark March 10th, 2010 at 2:32 am Thank you. I have been saying the same thing from day 1 … why can’t they put the car in neutral and/or shut the engine off … Do these people never drive above 50 MPH and when the car hits 90 they are just dead frozen with fear … I could understand a crash within 10 secs of the ‘take-off’, but 5+ min (90 mins, really) you have got to be able to put the car in neutral and shut off the engine. AND I agree the problem is much worst then they are telling us. This really sounds like a software bug … Fly by wire has crashed big planes in to the side of a mtn … Maybe we aren’t ready for cars that use to much computer and enough mechanical controls. This is a software issue that is going to require the replacement of the ECM on every Toyota, because to many people just panic and can not do a simple tasks (under pressure), like put a car in neutral.
	janestopthiscrzythng March 10th, 2010 at 1:45 pm Neutral yes… but I wouldn’t shut off the engine until you have steered safely to a stop.
	Jinx March 10th, 2010 at 2:27 pm Whew! I was beginning to think that I, along with my ’98 Subaru, was getting so old that we’d been left behind by newer technology — tho’t maybe newer vehicles couldn’t be put into neutral and switched off. Happy to know my brain and driving skills are still useful.
	CHRISTY March 10th, 2010 at 2:46 pm Good heavens!! I have been thinking the very same thing and it baffles me that people do not just throw the car in NEUTRAL!! It only makes sense!!!
	JPMitch19 March 10th, 2010 at 3:20 pm I saw a report this morning that included a portion of the 9–1-1 call when the operator advised the driver to put the car in neutral. He declined, saying he was trying to control the car.
	Pedro March 10th, 2010 at 4:48 pm This is exactly what I have been saying. I am blown away that people are out there on our highways and do not have any sense of reality about driving. This is scary. Instead, the accelerator sticks (which has been known to happen in lots of different makes of car), and the best thing they can think to do is call someone. Insane. Take control of your life.
	Guest March 10th, 2010 at 5:16 pm Switching engine right off can lock front wheels and remove ability to steer.
	Guest March 10th, 2010 at 6:35 pm Exactly, thank you.
	Guest March 10th, 2010 at 6:36 pm to the main article, that is.
	Heather March 10th, 2010 at 6:45 pm Any thoughts that the guy made the story up? Publicity or money?
	Jeff March 10th, 2010 at 6:56 pm If had thought this all along. There is a lot more here that meets the eye. Why did he ignore the dispatcher when she kept asking if he tried to put it in neutral? No matter how panicky I was, I would make an effort to follow some directions, even if I was too stupid to know that all I ever had to do was throw it into neutral!
	tslate March 10th, 2010 at 10:22 pm There are many conflicting accounts on stopping a Toyota runaway. Your assuming that a malfunctioning car accelerating out of control will let the car into neutral even if you “shift” the lever. It’s all software anyway, so if there’s a bug or electronics bug causing the car to accelerate and not turn the engine off, not move into neutral, not stop the car by applying the brakes, how is it that you assume all this is logically going to work when illogic or an electronics malfunction is causing this? Big assumptions to be be so cheeky and cavalier assuming everyone’s an idiot that can’t put it into neutral. My wife’s 2006 Avalon so far revs high RPM’s without any provocation, but no lurches, so who knows what may happen beyond simple reving. The dealer staff or one of them denied it years ago and tried to blame my wife’s driving. Also by the time you actually figure out it’s going on it’s own you may damn well be going out of control ready to hit something, so calm logical processes just don’t work in those situations.
	tslate March 10th, 2010 at 10:22 pm I wish people would stop being so ignorant and keep on prattling about putting the car into neutral when they don’t know WTF they are talking about. You know for a fact the software will obey your command? No you don’t.
	jamiejmcintyre March 11th, 2010 at 12:37 am A couple of points: 1. It’s understandable that people might not have the presence of mind to make the right moves in a panic. That’s why it’s important to publicize the right thing to do. 2. There have been no reports of Toyota transmissions locking up and not shifting. That would be an even more serious problem. 3. It’s not all software, some things on a car are still mechanical. Including parts of the transmission. 4. If your accelerator gets stuck, shift into neutral. Try it in you car tomorrow, when you are driving along. It’s not that hard. 5. Reread #2 Jamie
	Smarter than the Car March 11th, 2010 at 12:49 am You can still steer with the engine off, albeit the effort to do so will be greater but you can still turn the wheel. TURN OFF THE IGNITION DAMN IT!!!!!!!!
	Loyal Owner March 11th, 2010 at 12:54 am Toyota has become the kind of car maker that persuaded me to buy them in the first place 30 years ago. C’mon Toyota stop embarrasing me.
	Old Dude March 11th, 2010 at 12:52 am I can turn off my 87 Subaru,70 VW Bug, 74 VW Bug, 82 BMW, 94 TOYOTA Truck and still steer and brake. Oops these are all old cars.. Hmmmm does that say something?
	jamiejmcintyre March 11th, 2010 at 1:27 pm This following letter to the editor of the Washington Post underscores two key points: 1. There IS a problem. 2. You CAN stop the car, by shifting into neutral. Playing the blame game with runaway Toyotas Thursday, March 11, 2010; A20 “Frank Ahrens quotes an auto industry consultant who claims the problem with runaway Toyotas almost always lies with drivers who step on the wrong pedal [“Why it’s so hard for Toyota to find out what’s wrong,” Sunday Business, March 7]. I find this assertion infuriating. I know exactly where my foot was on the two occasions that my 2004 Prius accelerated out of control on the Beltway last year — firmly on the brake until the accelerator popped back up from its unnaturally depressed position. The dealership blamed “floor mats,” but I was using small carpet squares that didn’t reach the pedal. The condescending assumption that drivers don’t know what they are talking about when they report problems like this is why I must now mentally rehearse how to put my car into neutral every time I venture out on the highway.” Phyllida Paterson, Silver Spring
	Black Eagle March 12th, 2010 at 2:05 pm I don’t own a Toyota, but according to my mechanic the cars in question use a “computer controlled” system similar to the remote “Fly By Wire” system in modern jet aircraft. There no longer is a physical ‘link’ from the gearshift lever to the transmission — it’s all ‘electrical’ switching done remotely via a radio transmitter…or router box. You know like having a wireless laptop..only this one tells the engine and transmission what to do. This system REFUSES to “electrically” disengage the transmission at speeds above 30mph to prevent damage …so putting the lever in neutral does nothing. The computer keeps the car in gear,until the speed gets below 30mph.… but with a stuck accelerator the engine continues to race. The next thing I asked my mechanic was how about shutting off the ignition switch? Same thing. The computer won’t shut off the enginer while the car is moving…‘catch 22″. There are some engineers and people who believe the sticky accelerator is NOT caused by the a faulty pedal — but is also a ‘computer poblem’…but nobody knows for sure. I don’t know if this is true if some of you have a Toyota, go up on an interstate and try kicking your car out of gear at various speeds above 30mph and see what happens. The ultimate solution of course is NEVER buy a car with an automatic transmission, as you won’t have that problem with a manual tranny.
	jamiejmcintyre March 12th, 2010 at 7:11 pm Black Eagle– Very interesting. I have a 2005 Toyota… and have put it in neutral at slower speeds. Will try it on the interstate today and report back.
	Antny March 13th, 2010 at 9:21 am In her Congressional testimony in February, Rhonda Smith stated putting the car in neutral, along with other measures, did not work. We can believe her or not, but the statement was made.
	Jstn March 13th, 2010 at 9:45 am I would have to say that whenever you testdrive a car, take it up to highway speeds and shove it into neutral (no, it won’t hurt it although the engine may rev up loud, if you foot’s still on the pedal) If it doesn’t shift into neutral, turn around and take the car back and tell the salesman to shove his death machine up his ass. Only a complete idiot would buy a car that is that much out of the driver’s control. Now ordinarily, I would say that anyone stupid enough to buy such a car deserves whatever happens to them (thining the old herd, of some dead-weight, you know LOL) however, these idiots are sharing the road with the rest of us. I am hearing that the lawsuits are starting to roll in. I hope they bankrupt Toyota, who’s continuing “denial” has put all of us in danger, everytime we go out on the highway.
	jamiejmcintyre March 13th, 2010 at 3:12 pm In response to Black Eagle and others, I took my 2007 Toyota Solara out on the interstate, and had no trouble shifting into neutral at highway speeds. I also had no trouble turning off the ignition, although that was a little scarier, ( Watched all the gauges drop to zero, and had to restart the car while rolling along in neutral at 60 mph.) My car, of course in not one of the models recalled, but neither are many of the cars reporting problems. So, my question is: do the transmission work differently on 2008, 2009, models? I don’t think so. I think in the panic of dealing with a runway cars many people are confused about EXACTLY what happened, and EXACTY what they did. — Jamie
	jamiejmcintyre March 13th, 2010 at 10:39 pm Check out this CNN iReport: http://www.ireport.com/blogs/ireport-blog/2010/03…
	bill smith March 14th, 2010 at 7:52 am Come on, you ignore the dispatchers instructions to put the car in neutral? It seems obvious that this guy did this to continue the media frenzy with Toyota
	Antny March 14th, 2010 at 8:33 am I’m not disagreeing with your advice in this post, but one difference worth pointing out is that your car was not malfunctioning at the time of your test. Maybe it works as you found right up to the point it stops working that way. We just need a definitive answer on whether the ECU controls gear selection of if it strictly mechanical. From my experience working in law enforcement, you are absolutely right that there is no telling how people actually reacted in these situations. People regularly forget and “misremember” when the adrenaline starts to flow.
	FYI March 15th, 2010 at 8:06 am Oops! The 2010 Prius Manual Contradicts Toyota’s Emergency Instructions http://priuschat.com/news/oops-the-2010-prius-man… By now you’ve probably seen or heard from Toyota what you should do in the case of an emergency in your Prius. Shift the car into Neutral, apply brakes, pull over. If that doesn’t work, hold the Power button for 3 seconds to shut the car down. There’s only one problem with these instructions — they are exactly the opposite of what Toyota has written in the 2010 Prius manual. As you can see in the image above from the 2010 Prius owners manual, the manual says on Page 155 under Chapter 2–1 Driving Procedures: Do not under any circumstances shift the shift lever to “R”, “N” or push the “P” position switch while the vehicle is moving. Doing so can cause significant damage to the transmission and may result in a loss of vehicle control. …more…
	Jamie March 15th, 2010 at 10:46 am A careful reading of the manual, along with a modicum of understanding of how cars work, would tell you that any potential damage to the transmission would come from putting the car in P (park) or R (reverse), NOT from shifting into N (neutral.) Shifting into neutral does NOT damage the transmission. Think about it. Watch the iReport from CNN, if you are having trouble with the concept. So: 1. shift into neutral. 2. Apply the brakes. 3. Turn the car off. In that order.
	GladtobeRetired March 18th, 2010 at 2:46 am Problem solved…buy American
	Yokohama Slim March 27th, 2010 at 1:54 pm Oh yeah, American cars… which ones are they again? Perhaps you mean the Toyota Camry’s assembled in Kentucky using parts from Ohio and Indiana? Or maybe you’re thinking of the Ford Crown Victoria, assembled in Canada with an engine from Mexico… Hard to keep them straight these days.
	Michael Blackstone June 4th, 2010 at 12:34 am Hi Jamie– can you explain WHY on September 11, 2001 you were in front of the Pentagon reporting LIVE that when you were observing close up at the Pentagon crash site– you could see “no evidence of any recognizeable plane parts”.…yet in an interview much further out in the future– you said you could see what looked like “parts of the cockpit” etc etc etc…explain to me how this is possible, the live report and the subsequent followup of somehow mysteriosuly seeing recognizeable plane parts? Not trying to start any conspiracy BS like the truthers.…just looking for a valid explaination as a trusted journalist.

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Carl Prine's Line of Departure

Toyota: A Neutral Observation

This is a little out of my area of expertise, but exercising my blogger’s prerogative, I have to say I am puzzled by this ongoing Toyota story. I own two Toyotas, and they have been great cars, but I get that there are some real problems with some small fraction of the vehicles on the road.

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