“Acid Test” for the Osprey in Afghanistan

“Acid Test” for the Osprey in Afghanistan

Just a few years ago there were serious questions whether the V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor heliplane was simply too unforgiving the fly in combat.    But the V-22s proved their worth in dust of Iraq, and now they will get a real test in the thin mountain air of Afghanistan.

My colleague Rick Whittle is writing a book on the Osprey [The Dream Machine, the Untold History of the Notorious V-22 Osprey], and points out this announcement in the latest troop rotation release from the Pentagon:

“Additionally, the secretary of defense approved a request by the commander of U.S. Forces-Afghanistan to deploy a squadron of MV-22 Ospreys from Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron-261, Jacksonville, N.C., to support the needs of forces on the ground in Regional Command-South.  This deployment will involve approximately 200 Marines, who will begin deploying in November 2009.”


Here’s Rick’s take:

“This is the first deployment to Afghanistan — and it should be the acid test, given the terrain and climate and the fact that Al Qaeda and the Taliban will surely be gunning for the aircraft if they see it. The Osprey didn’t get shot at much in Iraq because it was flying mainly in Anbar province, which was pretty peaceful at that time. It flew well in Iraq, even in searing heat, but most of that country is barely above sea level. Rotorcraft lose performance at higher altitudes and in hot temperatures, and Afghanistan is pretty high and hot.
According to information on the Internet, most of Afghanistan is at least 6,500 feet above sea level, and even mountain passes are in the 12,000 to 14,000 foot range. Some peaks top 20,000 feet. The GAO said in a recent report that the Osprey can’t operate as a helicopter above 10,000 feet. I’ve talked to pilots who dispute that, but there’s no question the altitude and heat will limit the V-22’s performance in helicopter mode, as altitude and heat do for all helicopters. The problem may be worse for the V-22 because of its “proprotors,” which are a hybrid between a helicopter rotor and an airplane propeller. They have a special twist to make them work as propellers, but that reduces their efficiency as rotors.
That doesn’t mean the Osprey won’t do well over there. The Marines haven’t said exactly how they’ll use it, but the Osprey’s speed and range will let them move troops and supplies a lot faster and farther than they can with helicopters, and Afghanistan is a big country. The Osprey could also save lives on medevac missions by getting wounded to treatment faster. For that matter, it could save lives just by cruising in airplane mode at about 275 mph and 8,000 feet or more above ground level, which it can do. I’m told that’s well above most of the threat there.”

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They’ve been saying the Ospreys are ready for the Stans since 9–11. Any news on the continued delays.

Although I washed out of the army WOC pilot program in 1964 I have always had great interest in aviation. Time magazine had a cover story on the V22 Osprey three years ago, I think. Didn’t former SecDefense Cheney try to cancel the craft four times in the early 90s? As for altitude, did the Soviets have many problems flying their HIND M-24 gunships around there? We know CIA supplied Stingers to the Afghans was a major factor in getting Ivan the hell out of the country after ten years.

Will they deploy with that new belly guy they’ve been playing with for two years?

Enter text right here!

Just a suggestion, wouldn’t it be a good idea to test this bird say at Fort Carson? They should have the right mountains to test on. Believe it or not I’m rooting for this bird.

Actually, on a road trip I took about 2–3 months ago through the Colorado High Country, I saw a local news paper in Durango that published an article on the Opsrey and that they would be running month-long testing of the craft’s performance in the mountains surrounding Durango. From some of the mountain passes I drove over, those tests ought to have provided some pretty-good insight into the potential problems, pitfalls, or “wins” that the V-22 will endure in Afghanistan.

Hooah! Seabees!

The HIND problems were not related to altitude, but the tactics of the mujahideen. They would attack in small groups, hiding behind rocks. The HIND was forced to get down in the “weeds” to use their rockets/machine gun fire effectively. Their engine exhaust was vented directly out the sides, making them an easy target for the Stingers. The HINDs had to back off and stay high to avoid the Stingers. This made them ineffective in protecting the Soviet convoys and outposts. As for the Osprey, Congressional support many times has thwarted Presidential directives (ie: C-130H, B-1, F136 engine). Presidents have to decide what is worth fighting Congress over in the budget (F-22).

The Osprey maintenance crews will be the ones to prove whether this bird can make a serious impact in AfPak.
The flight crews will be filing after mission reports and have detailed assessments of the bird’s capabilities, limitations and areas that need special attention. Until a year’s worth of sorties have been accomplished through
the severe altitude, mountainous wind sheers, blizzards, limited visibility in snow & rain, summer heat and dust
AND the rigors of daily combat missions, it would be best to hold off on any judgment calls.

What better test for a war machine is there than combat Barry? I think it is going to prove it’s worth in Afghanistan, only thing is it sure is vulnerable in heli mode…I bet we lose @ least one, sure hope not though.

I think that the Osprey is a Fantastic Aircraft. Half Helicopter half Fixed wing Aircraft. You could not ask for any thing better. Except maybe ( Star Trek . and The Beam me up Scotty) type of transport. If it could Only be done???.But Look at the B25 Mitchell And the B26 Marauder Of ww2 . The B25 had a bad start and was very unstable at high altitudes. And the B26 was called the willow maker because most crews died Because of the high speed landings The culprit was the Type of wings that was designed for it. and if you lost a engine it dropped like a rock. Because of the short wings. Until the Surviving crews learned to react to it . And the adoption of the longer wings out board of the engines!!!. So I say the V-22 is the best the Military can Buy. I only wish the Army had them. But then the Air force would scream that the army is transported by the Air Force. other wise the Air Force is the Army s Taxi Cab Drivers. HaHa

Can the Osprey land on unprepared fields? A problem with the fact that the engines rotate with the props is that the exhaust is blasted straight into the ground beneath. I think the Osprey has an exhaust deflector but how effective is it? Helicopters stir up a lot of dust but their prop wash is far less concentrated than an Osprey’s.
LtCol USAF Ret

u say the plane “proved its worth in Iraq” but say that it was [purposely] kept in friendly skies. and why is Afg. an “acid test” when only an idiot bent on killing even more Marines than this plane has already done it would put it stretch the envelope of its known flying limitations. So it will be babied along again. Its big waste and the felonious behavior of those approving its development cannot be hidden.

The Marine Corps MV-22 has a cruising speed of 275 mph. The top speed of the USMC’s UH-1W/Z Sea Cobra is 190 mph. The AV-8B Harrier is way too fast to escort the Osprey and it is a total waste of assets. The only solution for escorting and covering Ospreys going into potentially hot LZ’s is ARMED Ospreys.

The MV-22 is a sitting duck if it is sent into combat without some kind of weapons to defend itself. The Remote Guardian System by BAe is not going to deploy anytime soon. The M240D ramp gun on the Osprey is a joke. The 7.62 NATO machine guns in use or proposed is only 1,100 yards effective range.

Ditch the M240D ramp gun for the .50 GAU-21/A used by the CH-53D/E Marine Corps helos. Slap some stores racks on the belly or sides of the Osprey and mount a couple of .50 gun pods on them. Rig a fire button on the pilots’ side stick control. Install a reflecting gunsight on the instrument panel in front of the pilot. Now you have an adequately armed Osprey that can defend itself. The .50 machine guns is 2,000 to 2,200 yards effective range.

Case closed.

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